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	<title>Comments on: Liberal, Evangelical, or Fundamentalist?</title>
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	<link>http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/liberal-evangelical-or-fundamentalist/</link>
	<description>Thoughts from the Office of the Director</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 03:27:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: David Love</title>
		<link>http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/liberal-evangelical-or-fundamentalist/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>David Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 03:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-28</guid>
		<description>An insightful article:

http://www.apuritansmind.com/HistoricalTheology/McMahonDontCallMeEvangelical.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An insightful article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.apuritansmind.com/HistoricalTheology/McMahonDontCallMeEvangelical.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.apuritansmind.com/HistoricalTheology/McMahonDontCallMeEvangelical.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: mikerucker</title>
		<link>http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/liberal-evangelical-or-fundamentalist/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>mikerucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 07:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-27</guid>
		<description>good thoughts, good comments.  i&#039;m enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around the web.  i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but i&#039;m actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  

one of the things i like is that the authors have chosen &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to list creationism and inerrancy as non-negotiables. for the first, there&#039;s very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can&#039;t prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here.  still, some people hold to these positions; so be it.  there&#039;s simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we&#039;re allowed into the room marked &quot;Christian.&quot;

nothing&#039;s going to please everybody, and there are a few things i object to.  for instance, i don&#039;t agree with this statement: &lt;i&gt;We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.&lt;/i&gt;  Jesus&#039; message uses &quot;action&quot; verbs: teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know ... if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.

i did, however, like these words:  &lt;i&gt;We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.&lt;/i&gt;  somehow, we&#039;ve got to figure out how we&#039;re going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.

one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn&#039;t seem to be a great emphasis on &lt;i&gt;evangelism&lt;/i&gt; in this &lt;i&gt;Evangelical&lt;/i&gt; Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn&#039;t see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography...

more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece - that it isn&#039;t yet another &quot;here&#039;s everything we&#039;re &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;&quot; rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. imagine that - the gospel being &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.

perhaps one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&amp;tag=mwc04-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Emergent Manifesto&lt;/a&gt;) and finally have all our EM &amp; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.

one can only hope...

mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
&lt;a href=&quot;http://mikerucker.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mikerucker.wordpress.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good thoughts, good comments.  i&#8217;m enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around the web.  i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but i&#8217;m actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  </p>
<p>one of the things i like is that the authors have chosen <i>not</i> to list creationism and inerrancy as non-negotiables. for the first, there&#8217;s very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can&#8217;t prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here.  still, some people hold to these positions; so be it.  there&#8217;s simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we&#8217;re allowed into the room marked &#8220;Christian.&#8221;</p>
<p>nothing&#8217;s going to please everybody, and there are a few things i object to.  for instance, i don&#8217;t agree with this statement: <i>We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.</i>  Jesus&#8217; message uses &#8220;action&#8221; verbs: teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know &#8230; if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.</p>
<p>i did, however, like these words:  <i>We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.</i>  somehow, we&#8217;ve got to figure out how we&#8217;re going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.</p>
<p>one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn&#8217;t seem to be a great emphasis on <i>evangelism</i> in this <i>Evangelical</i> Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn&#8217;t see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography&#8230;</p>
<p>more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece &#8211; that it isn&#8217;t yet another &#8220;here&#8217;s everything we&#8217;re <i>against</i>&#8221; rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of <i>good news</i>. imagine that &#8211; the gospel being <i>good news</i>. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.</p>
<p>perhaps one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&amp;tag=mwc04-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">Emergent Manifesto</a>) and finally have all our EM &amp; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.</p>
<p>one can only hope&#8230;</p>
<p>mike rucker<br />
fairburn, georgia, usa<br />
<a href="http://mikerucker.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">mikerucker.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Love</title>
		<link>http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/liberal-evangelical-or-fundamentalist/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>David Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-26</guid>
		<description>So true, thanks Steve!  

How about, &quot; Followers of Jesus&quot;?! 

Fides Quaerens Intellectum</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true, thanks Steve!  </p>
<p>How about, &#8221; Followers of Jesus&#8221;?! </p>
<p>Fides Quaerens Intellectum</p>
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		<title>By: Marcia</title>
		<link>http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/liberal-evangelical-or-fundamentalist/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://directorsteve.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Good points, Steve!

I am wondering if the term &quot;evangelical&quot; should just be done away with altogether. Right now, it seems to have no meaning; or rather, it seems to be used so loosely that it means little.

It seems the word &quot;Christian&quot; has become loose in meaning, and now it&#039;s happening to &quot;evangelical,&quot; so maybe we should just stick to &quot;Christian&quot; and try to keep that defined.

With the influence of the culture and of the Emerging Church (or as they prefer, &quot;Conversation&quot;) on &quot;evangelicals&quot; today, I am not surprised we are seeing a more liberal wind in the so-called evangelical churches today, and among the leaders. This influence is tremendous, to the point that some of these Emerging leaders are universalists, inclusivists, or even panentheists. It&#039;s just a matter of time before we see more and more &quot;evangelical&quot; leaders fall into this, imo.

I don&#039;t want to sound pessimistic but I think I am being realistic.  I am not sure how to deflect these liberal blows except to stick to God&#039;s word and to sound doctrine and to preach the gospel, an increasingly rare call to hear these days. In fact, &quot;doctrine&quot; is almost a dirty word now, usually linked to words like &quot;rigid&quot; or &quot;dogmatic&quot; so that there is no way to see it as a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Steve!</p>
<p>I am wondering if the term &#8220;evangelical&#8221; should just be done away with altogether. Right now, it seems to have no meaning; or rather, it seems to be used so loosely that it means little.</p>
<p>It seems the word &#8220;Christian&#8221; has become loose in meaning, and now it&#8217;s happening to &#8220;evangelical,&#8221; so maybe we should just stick to &#8220;Christian&#8221; and try to keep that defined.</p>
<p>With the influence of the culture and of the Emerging Church (or as they prefer, &#8220;Conversation&#8221;) on &#8220;evangelicals&#8221; today, I am not surprised we are seeing a more liberal wind in the so-called evangelical churches today, and among the leaders. This influence is tremendous, to the point that some of these Emerging leaders are universalists, inclusivists, or even panentheists. It&#8217;s just a matter of time before we see more and more &#8220;evangelical&#8221; leaders fall into this, imo.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to sound pessimistic but I think I am being realistic.  I am not sure how to deflect these liberal blows except to stick to God&#8217;s word and to sound doctrine and to preach the gospel, an increasingly rare call to hear these days. In fact, &#8220;doctrine&#8221; is almost a dirty word now, usually linked to words like &#8220;rigid&#8221; or &#8220;dogmatic&#8221; so that there is no way to see it as a good thing.</p>
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